Accounts Deceivable Podcast Series: Season 3, Episode 3 - Surviving the Fallout

Speaker 1

It's a David and Goliath situation where they get squashed and are caught blindsided by all the different tactics that exist to silence the whistleblower. And it's not just being fired. It's being really blackballed from your industry, retaliated against, your credibility, your sanity attacked, just all kinds of tools that go against the whistleblower.

Speaker 2

Welcome to season three of Accounts Deceivable, a podcast about white collar crime and the devastating impact it has on people, companies, and communities. This season is about the moment of discovery. What happens to the people who uncover criminal activity in their own companies? We'll help you see fraud through the eyes of three infamous whistleblowers. From the biggest corporate invoice fraud in history to small town criminal masterminds, Accounts Deceivable will explore how fraudsters game the system and hear the stories of the incredibly strong employees who expose them. In episode three, we speak with three prominent whistleblowers to explore the impact of whistleblowing on their lives.

How often do you ask someone to trust you? For most of us, maybe a handful of times in our whole lives. If you have to ask for someone's trust, that normally means it's serious.

Whistleblower Sherron Watkins, who famously uncovered the Enron fraud, had spent months meticulously collecting evidence. When the moment came, the very least she expected was a fair hearing.

Speaker 1

I really felt like I was providing him with evidence, and the evidence would stand on its own.

I also thought I had the backing of all these colleagues.

And what ended up happening is shoot the messenger stuff. I was ignored. He tried to fire me, and my colleagues backed away. When they saw that I had delivered bad news to the top and that I was being shot, you know, they just clammed up.

So I experienced all the normal things that a whistleblower experiences, but Enron imploded too fast to make all their plans, you know, come to fruition. But it cemented for me how isolating blowing the whistle can be, the lack of support once you have taken that action.

Speaker 2

For Sherron, it was a betrayal of her belief in human decency that surprised and disappointed her the most. Seeing colleagues who became confidants turn their backs in the blink of an eye.

Speaker 1

It's a lot of shock because you do feel like there are people that feel just as concerned as you. You know, they're encouraging you to step up and say something and report the wrongdoing. And then when that support falls away and there's the pariah treatment, it's a double whammy because first off, you thought leadership was going to do the right thing, look at the evidence and try to right the ship, and instead they're shooting the messenger. So there's a deep disappointment in not only leadership, but colleagues that back away and take sort of a safe road. And that is one of the core things that you hear from whistleblowers, that in the end, you walk away realizing that you overestimated human nature.

Speaker 2

As you can imagine, there is a close tie between the quality of a whistleblower's mental health and the reactions of those around them. And some of those cases can be truly traumatic, as it was for Jennifer Griffith, one of the two women to uncover one of the largest social security frauds in US history.

Speaker 3

The toll of it is not just like we're talking about the mental health toll.

Like if you are forced from your job via one method or another, however they've gotten you to leave, whether it's just by berating you to the point you leave. Like for me, it was health. Like my health suffered and I had a lifetime of health problems because of it.

PTSD is a real thing, but whistleblowers don't go into this situation to be whistleblowers. We're not looking to cause trouble. It's just doing what we're trained to do, and that is looked on negatively instead of positively.

And if people would oversight these government for us, government agency oversight is critical because one of the things that they don't look at and they don't care about is the mental health of whistleblowers.

Speaker 2

How could so much mental trauma possibly be worth it? Many whistleblowers are simply driven by a fire to do their job and set things right. Sarah Carver, Jennifer's partner whistleblower, says that the strength to keep going, it comes from within.

Speaker 4

It's hard. It's not easy. And you have to be a strong person and you have to take that anger and turn it over into, you know, into strength, you know, into to power because that's where they get you is at your weakest weakest point. You get to that point where you're like, I'm going to stop. This is not even worth it. I just want to do my job. I just want to, you know, I just don't want to deal with this, but that'll haunt you.

Speaker 2

Sadly, once a whistleblower reports the situation, how it is resolved, and whether or not the perpetrators are brought to justice is largely out of their control. While Sherron saw a tidy ending to her story, she wants to remind listeners that her case is not the normal one.

Speaker 1

I saw vindication. I saw accountability. I saw justice. So I can leave it behind me, so to speak.

And many, many whistleblowers, the oppressor, the manipulator of truth is powerful and keeps going. And even the people within the organization that had read that had led the organization astray stay in positions of power. So that sense of injustice that a wrong has not been righted, that the good people got squashed and the bad people are still in power. That is the primary story of whistleblowers.

Speaker 2

That primary story Sherron refers to is one painfully reflected in Jennifer and Sarah's experiences. But before we hear from Jennifer on that experience, a word from our sponsor, Medius.

Speaker 5

Not only does invoice fraud cost businesses billions of dollars every year, but it's increasingly difficult to prove as technology has advanced. Whistleblowers put their professional and often personal lives on the line to do the right thing and ensure fraudsters don't succeed. They shouldn't also have to worry about the quality of the proof they bring to the table. Medius is an accounts payable software platform that enables finance professionals to combat scams by protecting the integrity of supplier data, auditing the invoice process in real time, and monitoring for insider fraud. For more information or a demo, visit www.medius.com.

Speaker 2

Now, back to Jennifer and Sarah, who are about to recall just how much choosing the path of whistleblowing changed their lives. Instead of being able to retire with pensions, they were forced out of their jobs while they watched those who perpetrated fraud, not only get to keep their government careers, but all the benefits that came along with it.

Speaker 3

We would both be able to retire, but instead we lost years of federal government pension and benefits. And that's the other thing that's a real sore spot for both of us is that when these people committed these crimes against us while we were their employees, they often are promoted or relocated, even if they're removed from their government pension and benefits.

And me walking away from it had to leave all of that behind.

Speaker 2

But it wasn't just Sarah and Jennifer who were punished for speaking out. The ripple effect of their case spread to the claimants themselves.

While the government was swift to react by closing the loopholes in the social security system that were used to perpetrate fraud, they also changed processes in a way that now makes it 10 times harder for claimants to file and receive Social Security claims.

Speaker 3

So now the burden of proof is much more stringent on disability applicants, and the hurdles that they have to jump through are so much more significant. And a lot of that, I'd say better than 90% of that is our fault. And instead of dealing with the problem and dealing with the people that created this situation, they have then in turn blocked everybody from seeing what they're doing and taken it out on the claimants.

Speaker 2

So what can be done in the wake of these seemingly insurmountable obstacles that whistleblowers face?

How can we learn from these stories and course correct moving forward? Sherron sees hope in a future where more advanced tools are readily available. Unlike her days where colleagues would print out reports and secretly leave them on her desk chair.

Speaker 1

The tools to be able to analyze where problems might happen are just growing at a rapid fire rate so that outside people can smell a problem easier now. I actually think AI will revolutionize both auditing and oversight on publicly traded companies.

Speaker 2

Don Holm of Medius explains the role that more advanced technology can play in helping whistleblowers report potential instances of fraud.

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It's critical for employees who spot potential fraud to feel comfortable, confident, and prepared in reporting it. One of the ways we can better equip employees to do so is by providing them with the tools that will support and empower them in spotting fraud. One form of this is AI anomaly detection technology, which can identify unusual patterns in standard transactions, such as supplier payments, that may indicate potential fraud if there's a deviation from the typical invoice.

Speaker 2

Sarah's advice on ways potential whistleblowers can protect themselves also revolves around documentation, like Don mentioned, namely secure as much of it as possible, as access to this evidence could be closed off or restricted at any time.

Speaker 4

I would advise any whistleblower or anybody who is getting ready to disclose information that would be considered whistleblowing is I would document everything. I would start a journal, a calendar, a timeline. This is going to be very, very important. I would print emails and secure those because, like in our case, the hard drive was completely erased.

Speaker 5

AI-based anomaly detection ensures that everyone operates with the same accurate information. This technology is particularly empowering for potential whistleblowers as it provides them with concrete, verifiable evidence that can be reviewed by multiple stakeholders.

This shared visibility reduces the risk of isolation for the whistleblowers and prevents leaders from ignoring critical reports. Considering the cases of Sherron, Jennifer, and Sarah, this technology could have made a substantial difference in those situations.

Speaker 2

It's clear that technology, documentation, even lawyers are all key to the success of whistleblowers and bringing the fraud they spot to justice. But an often forgotten aspect is mental health support. Sarah and Jennifer often talk about how much harder their experience would have been without each other's support and how it would have been easy to succumb to the pressures of isolation.

In Sherron's case, she did experience that isolation and the mental toll that came with it, and understands firsthand that whistleblowers need a support system. Today, Sherron, Jennifer, and Sarah all spend their time advocating for whistleblowers and telling their stories in hopes of making a difference in the lives of future whistleblowers.

For more chilling stories from victims and fraudsters alike, check out the Accounts Deceivable podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your audio fix.